Thoughts on life, leadership and the movement called the church by Brian C. Hughes, Senior Pastor

by Brian C. Hughes, Senior Pastor

Wednesday, March 31, 2010


Wow! There are so many exciting things happening at our church. God is really doing some new and great things around and through us!

I have VERY important information to share with you. Please keep reading.

a) If you are flexible in your schedule, we need some folks to shift to the early (9:00am) service. Last week, we almost ran out of seats at 11. That's going to happen again this week. Come at 9 if you can.

b) PCC's WESTCHESTER CAMPUS LAUNCHES THIS SUNDAY!! Last Week's preview service went extremely well, and we got very positive feedback. But next week is the critical moment! We need to make sure there are enough people there to achieve critical mass. So, we’re asking folks – especially folks who live on the eastern side of Powhatan and into Chesterfield – to consider going to Westchester, especially on Easter Sunday. This will help us have some open seats at the Powhatan Campus and it would help the Westchester Campus, too. I'm only asking you to consider it, that's all. If you would prefer to come to the Powhatan Campus, of course you can.

c) At the Powhatan Campus, PLEASE TAKE THE SHUTTLE! Last Sunday, we ran out of parking spaces at the 11am service. EVERY PCC Insider needs to take the Shuttle so our guests can have a parking spot on site.

2. PARKING LOT LONG TERM: Within 2 weeks, we should have our parking lot straightened out and completely finished, dressed with gravel, and with a capacity of significantly more spaces than we have today.

Thanks for being flexible. Isn't it awesome that we have these kinds of 'challenges'?!

Tuesday, March 30, 2010

Sound Issues

LOTS and LOTS of people have let me know how painful the sound was last week. I hear you (no pun intended) and we are going to get it fixed. We will spend a few hundred dollars this week alone to make some adjustments that are necessary. Here are a few additional thoughts:

1) There is a difference between pressure and volume. Often, people will say it's too 'loud' (and they think it is), but, in fact, the problem is that the sound is unbalanced. The first Sunday, March 14, we ran the sound very loud. It was mixed well, but the volume was higher than we've run it before. That's on me. I told the tech guys to crank it up. Last week, though, we were running fewer decibels than we ran at the High School. The problem wasn't volume, it was that the sound was 'piercing'. It hurt. I get it. I hear you. I felt it, too. We'll fix it.

2) When it comes to sheer volume, though, it's never going to be quiet and serene. It shouldn't hurt the average person's ears. The sound should not painful or piercing. At the same time, you should not be able to sit in your seat and have a casual conversation during the worship. The music we do has to move people, grab them. I have watched many Sundays as we played killer music that should have had people jumping up and down, but because it wasn't loud enough, the sound remained 'on the stage' instead of being in the seats. If you go to NewSpring, Atlee, National Community Church, Mecklenburg, Elevation, Mosaic, NorthPoint, or most any other church like ours, you'll experience a concert-like atmosphere where the music volume is loud, but the pitch and mix is such that it's not painful. That's what we're after.

3) One of the reasons we're having a hard time getting our room right is that we had to cut some serious money from our sound equipment budget in order to get into the building. We'll add that stuff back over time. In the meantime, we're making some adjustments that will hopefully 'cheat' our way back to comfort.

I assure you that this coming Sunday will be a good mix. I will ensure that.

I'm really grateful to the folks who let me and others on our team know about last week's sound and also who have been patient and gracious with us while we work out the kinks.

See you Sunday!

Monday, March 29, 2010

Something I learned last week

I learned something that was a complete surprise that happened last weekend. The people who manage Westchester Commons organized a community Easter Egg Hunt. The Westchester Campus team asked the management group if we could put up a table and promote PCC and they agreed. We had a little game for the little kids and gave away bags of popcorn with our logo, pens and brochures. We had lots of very good conversations with many people who seemed genuinely interested in our church.

There were two surprises for me:

1) The number of people. There were probably 300 kids and at least as many adults. I just never would have guessed that many people would have come, especially on such a cold morning. It was a lot of people.

2) The biggest surprise came from Dennis Green’s informal survey. Everyone he talked to (and there were many), he would ask how and when they learned about the event. Most heard about it through the Powhatan Today. People really read the PT! But overwhelmingly, they said they heard about it either the day before or the day of! The event had been advertised for weeks. But most folks seemed to base their plans on a much shorter range schedule than I would have imagined. That’s a total shock to me.

I love learning about how our culture works, how people think, and what would get people to want to come to church!

Wednesday, March 24, 2010

Midweek and 3rd Service?

Many have asked if we will do a midweek service or a 3rd Weekend service at the Powhatan Campus. There is a lot of conversation happening around both of those. My short answer is, 'yes. I feel like both of those will happen at some point.'

But there is a longer answer...

While moving into the building is awesome and launching Westchester is great and launching the Online campus is innovative; and while all of these things give us an exponentially increased opportunity to reach people...the truth is that these endeavors have have also really taxed us. We're tired. We need a break. At some point, I start to wonder, "are we hurting people?"

So we will do whatever God tells us to do, when He tells us to do it. That's our job. We obey without delay. But short of a clear directive from God, we're going to try to let everyone breathe a little before we turn our church upside down again.

In the meantime, we need to fill every seat, every week. Invite everyone you know. Our two physical campuses mean that PCC is convenient for people to attend regardless of where they live. Invite your co-workers, your neighbors, your friends, family, enemies and the people you do business with. No More Empty Seats!

Tuesday, March 23, 2010


For the Powhatan Campus Only, beginning next Sunday, March 28, our early service time will move to 9am. This will give us longer in between services. Our service times are now 9 and 11am. At the Westchester campus, which launches on April 4, the early service starts at 9:30.

Once Westchester launches, we will go to work on the Online Campus, which we hope will launch pretty quickly after Easter.

Monday, March 22, 2010

A Cool Thing about our Church

You might not know this or you may not have thought about it.

Three years ago, we raised almost $50,000 to re-build Calvary Baptist Church in Belize, and teams from PCC have been down there multiple times to help them complete the project.

Saturday, March 13, the day before we had our first service, a band group from Powhatan High School practiced in our new building auditorium. They had a last-minute cancellation on the facility they were going to use and asked if they could use ours.

Before we had our own building, we build another church theirs.
Before we used our own building, we let someone else use ours.

We are not a perfect church. But we do this exceptionally well. We give to those outside ourselves. We put the needs of others above our own. This is what the Bible teaches. It reminds me of the story of the Macedonian churches:

2 Corinthians 8:1-4 (NIV) And now, brothers, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. Out of the most severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the saints.

I'm so glad that I'm a part of a church which considers others first.

Saturday, March 20, 2010

PCC: Tanzania

Jeanette Brannan's blog


The Tanzania team returns today! Can't wait to hear about all that God did through them in the 2 weeks they've been gone. When you come home from a trip like that, you often are a mixture of total excitement and complete exhaustion. Please pray for this team as they recuperate for the next few days. You might also reach out to them and schedule them to come and visit with your small group to talk about their trip and about missions in general.

Tuesday, March 16, 2010

Reflections from Dennis Green, Executive Pastor

Dennis Green shared his thoughts after PCC's first service in the new building.

It is late Monday night March 15th. Yesterday, our opening Sunday is still fresh in my mind. What a great day.

I went to the Powhatan County Building Department this past Thursday to make sure we were going to be able to have services in our new building on Sunday. At the end of our conversation, Ralph Shelton, the County building official, shook my hand and said “Congratulations, I don’t know how you did it, but you did it.” I was beaming as I said “thank you very much” (knowing in my heart how we did it) and headed back to the church to tell everyone the good news.

That short trip from the County administrative building to our church was eventful for me. The tears started as soon as I got in my car and I could not stop crying. I got to the church building and had to compose myself to get out of the car and face the folks expecting me to bring back news. At first, I was surprised by my emotion. But as I had a chance to process my emotions God brought this story to my mind: A story of the early history of the Hebrew people. A story of a people who were in slavery for hundreds of years and that God gave an opportunity to take possession of a land He had promised them. As you will remember, the Hebrew people struggled in their attempts to take possession of this ‘Promised Land’. They were in the wilderness for a long time until they were allowed to take possession of that which God had promised.

I realized that some of my emotion was because we had been in the wilderness too. People had told Brian, Chauncey and I that we should not do it and that we could not do it. Finishing this building was more than we could possibly deliver. We were personally and corporately defamed from inside and outside the Church. Disinformation and negativity ruled the day.

As the tears flowed I realized that those people who said we
couldn’t do it were right. Brian, Chauncey and I could not do it. Those people were right...but they were so wrong. We could not do it - but they so underestimated PCC. PCC could do it, and, with God’s help, we did do it!

The realization of what we accomplished together was overwhelming. It still is. I can only imagine the emotion from those Hebrew people all those years ago when they finally took possession of their promised homeland. I just know that we are not in the wilderness any longer.

We are home. Rock on PCC!!!…Go God!!!!!!!!!

Dennis Green

Sunday, March 14, 2010

A Day We'll Never Forget

We've had a lot of great Sundays, but few were as memorable as today. The first day in our new building. It was...incredible. And I am profoundly grateful for so many who worked so hard with such great attitudes.

By the way, we filled the front parking lot at the Middle School, then we filled up the bus loop. There were so many people.

There are so many great stories to tell, so many things to champion as successes. I could probably write for hours, but I'll just do a quick list of a few things that immediately come to mind. I'm going to mention a few names, but there are literally hundred of people, so this is just a few of them:
  • Technical. Wasn't it awesome in the big room? The video work, the sound, the lighting, the music and the choir, the dancing. Hundreds of hours were poured into it. But one person dumped his heart and soul into it in a way that was truly shocking: John Starkey. John stayed night after night until 3am tweaking the sound, adjusting speakers, running wires, troubleshooting problems. He never complained...he just got the job done. He had a lot of help, to be sure. But it wouldn't have happened today without John and his team. Way to go, John! Your investment produced excellence today.
  • Floors. I saw small groups laying tile, and person after person would clean and wax. But I can't help but thank Chip Stettler and his daughter and Katie. Friday night, the floors in the kids areas needed to be waxed. It would take several hours with no traffic - the perfect night job. Chip and Katie stayed all night long. When I got to church at 7am, they unlocked the door for me to let me in. Chip went home for a few hours sleep, then he was back at noon, working again. The floors looked fantastic. Way to go, Chip and Katie!
  • Parking. When I drove in at 5:15 this morning, I thought to myself, "On my list of questions that I need to ask God when I get to heaven, one will be 'Why did it have to rain TODAY?' " The parking lot was a mess. I was worried. But I never saw anyone who wasn't smiling as they came in. I never heard anyone complain. One guy spearheaded the parking folks - David Samuel. In the pouring rain and mud, David and his team parked, waved, smiled, and held umbrellas. You were the first impression of PCC, and you made people want to come inside. Way to go, David! You did your best with an imperfect parking lot and bad weather, and you turned a challenge into an opportunity.
  • Carpet. I called a friend, Brad Harris, who is connected to our church and comes sometimes. Brad is a carpet layer. I told him we were out of money and asked him if he would lay the carpet in the office suite for free. He didn't hesitate. He would do it. He was to come Friday, but before he came, another friend arranged for the the carpet for the PowerJam stage to be donated. When Brad got to the church on Friday, we asked him if he'd lay that, too. He agreed. But he ran out of time. He was supposed to come back on Saturday, but had to work late. So, this morning, at 5:30, Brad met me at our building and put that carpet on the PowerJam stage by himself, finishing at about 8am. Way to Go, Brad! It really made a difference. (By the way, our staff bought the carpet for the office suite out of their own pockets...way to go PCC Staff!)
From the bookstore to the student lounge to the coffee. From the bathrooms to the volunteer central area that had a ready made breakfast and goodies for those serving today. From the shuttle drivers and vans that were loaned to the parking bumpers in the parking lot. Signs, greeters, floor cleaners, ushers, carpenters, children's workers, deputy sheriffs. From the people who cleaned windows, painted walls, decorated rooms, hung fixtures, arranged tables, tweaked lights, stained bookcases, and handed out programs. To all who worked so hard to make today happen: WAY TO GO, CHURCH!!!!

It matters. It really matters. So, let me close with a couple of stories.

I met a lady today. She said, "I've been coming to PCC for a little while. It's the only church I've ever enjoyed coming to, and now my husband comes with me, too." They're the target!

A man I met today asked, "Could God really give me a second chance? Does He really look at me and see that what he created is good?" Yes. Unfinished and imperfect could still be good. He told me that he had been messed up for so long. I assured him that God was the God of the second chance. He'll be back. We'll journey together with him. He's the target!

A friend's sister came with her for the first time today and said she was blown away. She doesn't go to church. She's the target.

My daughter told me about helping the guy sitting next to her find Nehemiah. He didn't understand how the Bible is laid out, and how the chapters and verses work. He's the target.

What we do matters. And it mattered in a big way today. Thank you for what you do at PCC!

Greater things are yet to come!


Saturday, March 13, 2010

final note about tomorrow

DON'T FORGET - TOMORROW WE ARE MEETING AT THE NEW BUILDING - 4480 ANDERSON HIGHWAY. SERVICE TIMES ARE 9:30 AND 11:00. Come early -we expect a lot of traffic, and we will be offering shuttle service from Powhatan Middle School to the church property, as we're still dealing with some mud in our lot. Please plan to take advantage of the shuttle. DON'T FORGET TO CHANGE YOUR CLOCKS TONIGHT!

Friday, March 12, 2010


We have a Certificate of Occupancy! This means that we will be meeting in our new facility this coming Sunday! It is sure to be an incredible day. There is a ton of excitement and people have come out in droves to help us get ready. I have critically important information to share here, so please keep reading:

1) We expect a huge crowd on Sunday. If we could get 100 cars parked off-site, it would ensure that we have a space on-site for all of our guests. If PCC is your church, please park at Powhatan Middle School. We will have 2 shuttles running people back and forth continuously. You won't have to wait and you won't be stranded. It's only 1.5 miles, so the shuttles will be around every 5 minutes. We're not going to have to do this long term, but for the first couple of Sundays, it's going to be critical. You can come to the building first and drop off your family if you need to. If you don't want to do this or have a special need, it's ok. We have 250 spaces on site. But we need a bunch of folks to be willing to park at the Middle School.

2) While the county signed off saying our facility is safe and meets minimum building requirements, that does not mean that it's 'ready'. There are tons of things to do in the next 36 hours. It is likely that people will be at the facility all night tonight, and possibly tomorrow night. If you can help clean, lay tile, paint, etc., please come. Someone will be here continuously at least until late Saturday.

3) Don't forget to set your clock ahead an hour Saturday night.

4) We really need folks to help on Sunday morning. As many PCC folks as possible are needed from 8:30am until the end of the second service. Just show up and we'll get you in a spot. We need parking folks, guest services people and greeters, people to clean up after some mud and dirt gets tracked in, folks to check on the bathrooms and make sure they're clean, etc, etc, etc. If you are willing to help, email or

5) We still need drivers for the shuttle. If you can help pull a shift between 7am and 12:30 and you are at least 25 years old, please contact or 380-5405.

6) Please come with a smile and a grateful heart. We have a certificate of occupancy, but the building is still a work in progress. There are some rooms without tile (we own it all, we just haven't had time to get it all down); we don't have all the ceiling tile; the parking lot partially paved, partially gravel; the portico isn't up yet.... God has blessed us with a GREAT building. Every week, we'll get a little more of it completed. Come Sunday and be thankful for what we have!

God has been good to PCC! I am looking forward to an incredible day on Sunday!

Thanks to all who have done so much to make it happen.


Monday, March 8, 2010

How Could I Neglect Her?

I got to spend most of the day today with my favorite person on the planet. She's my best friend. She was my soul mate before the phrase was popular and cheesy. She's the smartest advisor I have, has an uncanny sense of intuition that is almost always right. She's fun. She's a great listener. She loves God and points me to Him. She's a great mom. She's one of the most effective leaders I've ever known. 22 years ago, she was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen...and she still is.

So why in the world would I spend 7 days a week working and no time with her week after week after week?! I don't know. We went out to lunch today and then to see a movie. We did some work, I confess, and much of our conversation was about the church. But we still got to have a good, ol' fashioned date. I absolutely love being around her. I had just forgotten.

Today, I was reminded just how must I missed her...and how much I'd missed the boat. Somewhere, we both got off track and gave in to the never-ending list of demands that come from leading a high-speed, growing, moving, building, reaching, experimenting, life changing church. Our church is more fun than anything I've ever done, but that doesn't mean much if I neglect my most precious gift in the process.

I'm going to fix that.

I told Susan today that I'd rather have her in my life than anything else. I mean that. I frankly feel a little hypocritical to tell people to work less and focus on their spouse and family when she and I work so much and neglect our family. Today was an 'aha' moment for me and I am going to fix it.

Thank you, God, for allowing me to see where some important adjustments are needed.

Saturday, March 6, 2010

Introducing the Campus Pastor

Recently, the Steering Team gave their final approval (they also had the proposal and worked through it for several weeks), and I want to make it official today and then give you some idea of what this role looks like.

Dennis Green will be the Campus Pastor at the PCC Westchester Campus!

Chauncey Starkey will be the campus pastor at the PCC Powhatan Campus!

What is a Campus Pastor?

Glad you asked. The role of the campus pastor is as follows:

1) Logistics. At the campus where they serve, the Campus Pastor’s role is to ensure that everyone has everything they need at each weekend service. I personally served in this role for a long time at PCC. The CP makes sure the doors get opened, the trailer arrives, the equipment gets set up, there are greeters in place, children are safe, the room gets put back like we found it, the coffee gets served and the door gets locked on our way out. The CP doesn’t have to DO the logistics, but is responsible for ensuring that everything gets done. Chauncey largely already does this in Powhatan. Dennis will do this at Westchester.

2) Follow Up. The CP will be the one who follows up with first time guests and others who are ready for various levels of contact after the weekend services experience.

3) "Weekend Shift Manager". We'll probably never use this language, but it's the best I have to describe this aspect of the role. What this means is that, once church is underway, the CP is the final authority for everything that happens at that campus. As we plan, schedule and rehearse, authority is a blending of centralization and decentralization. Beth, for instance, has the authority on creative arts for all of PCC. But when the service happens, if the CP needs to pull a drama, he can do it. (there are creative coordinators who also have input, so this is muti-layered.) Publications and money management will also be centralized. Other things, like guest services, will largely be site specific and decentralized. But when we’re ‘on’, the CP is the final authority.

4) Pastoral Care. The CP is the pastor. He’ll certainly need the help of the Care team (and we’re still figuring out how the care team will work in a 2 or 3 campus model), but when someone needs the pastor to go to the hospital, they’ll see the CP. Of course, there will be the same coordination we’ve always done, where Angie might be the pastor who visits a student, Susan a child, etc. But when someone wants the pastor, the CP will be it. And I’ll jump in at those moments when it’s appropriate.

5) The 'face with the place'. Everyone who is new wants to know 2 things: 1) who’s in charge, and 2) who can help me. The CP fills both of those roles, so he has to have some face time welcoming folks to the church. Beth and I will be working with Chauncey and Dennis to help them get better and better at this.

So, 5 things: Logistics, Follow Up, On-site Leadership, Pastoral care, and the face with the place. After that, both of these guys will also be involved with some coordinated planning for services and strategy when it comes to churchwide themes, like coordinating with the care team, leadership development, volunteerism, etc.

FYI: Both Chauncey and Dennis have other roles (Dennis is still the Executive Pastor and Chauncey is still the Administrator). All of our full-time staff and many of our part-time staff wear multiple hats. There is simply to much to do for us to only do one thing.

Tomorrow, I'll blog about my role and what the Senior Pastor does. But today, please join me in welcoming Dennis and Chauncey into their new roles as Campus Pastors at PCC!

Friday, March 5, 2010

One More Quick Update

I just want to be clear: We are still shooting for our first service in our new building happening on Sunday, March 14. We won't know for 100% sure until next week. The special 'building dedication' service will happen after we've been in the new building for a few weeks.

We're pushing hard to get the job done. Any help you can give with time and donations are very much appreciated and needed.

Thanks for making PCC happen!

Thank you for giving...

We missed three Sundays in 9 weeks because of the weather.

I put out a 'cry for help' to our church and to those who are attached or connected to PCC in some way. It was a position our church had never been in before.

And people really came through. People faithfully gave in order for us to get out of the hole the snow had created, and I first want to just say 'thank you'. I'm just so grateful for what you did for our church and our mission.

I also want to encourage you to make a commitment to PCC, if you haven't done that already. Tithing is Biblical. It's the only place in the Bible when God tells us to test him (Malachi 3). He wants you to know that you can trust him with your life...and your money. He will be faithful to you. This is not a promise of riches, but of relationship. When we hold back, we rob ourselves of the blessing of a completely committed relationship with Him. We can only experience the fullness of life that Jesus promised us when we commit our whole lives to Him.

This is not a plea for you to sell your house, live in a tent and give the money to the church (unless you know that God is saying that to you, of course). In fact, this part isn't about the's about you.

I encourage you to make your whole life a commitment to the One who committed His whole life to you. You might read Malachi 3:8-11, Genesis 14:18 and spend some time studying this subject.

Thanks for the trust you put into PCC. God is doing great things through us as we serve Him together!

Building Dedication

We are on the brink of moving to our own facility! Things are going very well, but a lot has to happen in the next week. We need your help if you can come and give some time.

I really wanted to have our ‘building dedication’ on our first day in our building, but it’s clear to me now that this is unrealistic, since we’ll not know for sure that we’ll be in it until just few days in advance. So, instead, we'll have some kind of a building dedication service sometime in April or May, prior to Memorial Day. This will give us time to plan it well, and it will allow our special friends to have plenty of advanced notice.

This coming Sunday, March 7, we are going to have a time of celebration for what God has done for us during our time with the school and we’ll specifically pray for the school board, teachers and for Dr. Meara. The services are at 9:30 and 11 at the High School.

I’ll keep you informed as to the dedication service that we’ll plan for the next few weeks

Thursday, March 4, 2010

Building and Book

Building. Please pray for PCC today. We have a series of final inspections over the next couple of days and a TON of work being finished up. We have to pass these inspections in order for us to move in and have our first service on March 14. Pray for Dennis, Chris, and all of the workers who are going the extra mile to make it happen!

Book. If you want to know more about the ins and outs of a multi-site church, I urge you to read 2 books: The Multi-Site Church Revolution and Multi-Site Church Road Trip. Both can be easily found on Amazon.

Tuesday, March 2, 2010

Why Multi-Site?

We are about to move to a multi-campus model for doing church. This is a foreign concept for most of us. It was for me, too, until I did a lot of research and reading, questioning and investigating. I know it takes a while to get used to the concept. Let me explain.

It used to be that there was essentially only one kind of church – the kind with a building and a steeple. The kind with its own pastor and its own staff and its own leadership. And when that church was planted, it might have a lot of support from parent churches and denominations, or it might only have a little. But at the end of the day, that church stood all by itself, and plenty of them aren’t standing anymore.

Today, there is a new model emerging for the way we reach people. It doesn’t replace the old model, but rather adds to it. It is experiencing great success not just in making churches larger, but in reaching the goal that Jesus gave to us – reaching people who are far from Him. This model is called ‘Mulit-Site’. A multi-site church is essentially one church operating in multiple locations.

Why would a church do this?
A church should consider expanding it's campuses when:
1) It has a unique DNA (style, personality, mission, structure)
2) That DNA can be duplicated
3) The church is healthy (not divided or fighting)
4) The church is already reaching people in another community who are driving some distance to come to church
5) An analysis of the area under consideration reveals a likely success

This is a philosophy at which the business world has been thriving for decades, and now the church is catching on. Through the multi-site movement, churches:

• capitalize on their success,
• do what has been proven to work,
• take advantage of their recognized name and community goodwill,
• offer the benefits of the large church in smaller church environments,
• and ensure that new plants do not stand alone, because they are truly integrated and are fully a part of whole organism.

I do understand that some are nervous about our becoming a multi-campus church. It's an unknown for us...and it's a change. But in all of the questions that are still left to be answered, this one thing is sure: God called us to reach people. We're not supposed to be comfortable...we're supposed to be available. Like Nehemiah, PCC positioned herself for whatever opportunity God opened, and He opened one.

Is there risk? Yes. I don't know what the future holds, how many will come on the first Sunday or how many will be coming in a year. But I am sure God is in it. The journey has been long and filled with prayer. And people are going to come to know Jesus Christ. That's why we do what we do.

The multi-site model will enable us to do it more effectively than ever before. It defines our new tag line: PCC: One Church. Multiple Locations. Powhatan. Westchester. Online. …and beyond.

I'll answer more questions on this keep reading it.